LU#10 "This Land Was Your Land"
Volume VI - Number 150
March 21, 2000


Welcome back!!!  I trust you had a good Spring Break.

what people wrote in about:
re: LU#9
SGA Ammendment


To JSO of Delta Tau- here is my “replay”:

I didn’t say that the way your pledges dress offends me. What I said was that I was offended by the way SOME pledges dressed-i.e., dressing up like “nerds.” I didn’t see the letters on their pledge books, and I honestly don’t know what club they were in, all I know is they were guys. And no, I don’t believe that you “have all bought are (our) friends” or that you “are all satan’s span (spawn).” All I’m saying is that I don’t like people making fun of the way some people dress, and I think that a responsible Christian organization shouldn’t promote that. I’m not dissing you or your club. No, I’m not in a club, but I have several friends who are. I don’t think social clubs are necessarily bad things. But where do you get off saying that because you’ve been here longer than I have (I’m assuming you mean your club because you don’t know how many years I’ve been here, or even if I’m a student or a professor) that you are right? That perennialist approach gets you nowhere.



"Satan's span" indeed! Seven misspellings and too many gramatical errors to count. Is this for real, or is this a gag by an anti-social club person attempting to make social clubbers look bad? I could write better than this when I was in 8th grade. I'd like to "mone" more about it, but you know, like a beaver I'll just "mind my dam business". I too am waiting for Catherine's instant "replay". God save America!

Lloyd Floyd

P.S. At least this time "Death" did not write in. What else can I say? I think he's Satan's span.


To JSO of Delta Tau:

You suggested that Catherine "look into were your money really goes here at Lipscomb." By that, I assume you meant her education. That's why we're all here, isn't it -- to get a good education in a Christian environment (*cough cough*)? Well, son, perhaps you should get off the front steps of the Student Center and crack a few books yourself. The spelling/ punctuation/ grammar in your LU reply were PAINFUL! Now, I know mine is nothing to brag about, either, but I think that a college student should have a certain grasp of the English language - something that was NOT demonstrated in your comments to Catherine. "[W]e are all satan's span." "[T]his campus would be better off if their were no clubs." "[F]ind some thing better on this campus to mone about." "I will be looking for your replay." Just a few examples of torment upon an English student such as myself. If you want your opinions to be taken more seriously, work on your grammar.

-- Stacy Shalvoy


i have absolutely no idea what is going on in this particular situation, but i do know this:

apparently whatever money this person is speaking of does not go to their personal grammatical education! now the true impact of social clubs has been demonstrated!! :) evil i tell you! evil!

chris williams



In reply to "Metz '79,"

OK, so maybe social clubs don't exist soley to "glorify God," but then again, neither do business fraternaties, and no one seems to be complaining about that. Also, I know many people in social clubs who have friends outside of their club, thus refuting the statement "How dare you not let someone “be your friend” because they are not “cool” or “rich” or whatever it takes to get in." Just a couple of thoughts.


(Correct me if I'm wrong, AKPsi-ers:  Business frats exist to promote and enhance business education and opportunities.  Just an observation.) rg


To Jason

So what you are saying is that you do nothing and live in a hole, that sounds like a-lot of fun!! No matter what you do people will judge you negatively. It sounds like you are afraid to be yourself and let people think of you in a negative way. Look at what Jesus was able to do with all the opposition he had.

To C. "Bubba" B.

Quit whining about social clubs and find something else important to worry about. If it bothers you that much leave. Just because the people in clubs chose to sit on the steps doesn't make them bad people. I am not in a club and I enjoy sitting on the steps. Just because a person chooses to be in a social club doesn't mean they are week are pay for there friends, they just feel that they want to be a part of something. There is nothing wrong with that. Why are you afraid to sign your real name?

Brian Gentry


Thanks to the security officer who took the time to write in and set the record straight about the homeless man from security's point of view. I am happy to hear that you did take the time to try and locate this man the first time you were called. It is good to have both sides of the aisle represented in a case like this, and it is important that everyone have their say. Only through so doing can we develop a better understanding of events as they happen.

John McCain effectively eliminated Tuesday; the one man who could bring this country together instead of tearing it apart. For those of you who just don't care about politics, disregard this paragraph.

And social clubs, social clubs, social clubs! I don't mean to be anti- social, but what's the big deal about? They're not for everybody, but does that make them Satan incarnate? Some of their members might get drunk, but doesn't a big cross-section of our campus who are not in social clubs? I personally know that there are plenty of people who are not in social clubs who get drunk and stoned. It would be naive to belive that joining a social club makes you Satan's spawn, to quote that Social Club impersonator from last issue. (Sorry, but that was a painfully obvious hoax). I am not going to say that joining a social club will make you morally more pure than it found you, but ask yourself this: if they are in a social club doing these things, wouldn't common sense tell you they would probably be doing this stuff if they weren't in a social club? Isn't it possible, even, that people can stay true to God even while being in a social club? I know a lot of you think social clubs are evil; maybe the institution is, maybe it isn't, I am not the judge of that and I have no opinion one way or the other. What I will say is this: the people in them are not. They are people, just like you and me, who happen to be in Social clubs. Period. Maybe some of them are stuck up; I won't say none of them are, but what I will say is to judge the person by the content of their character, not by what institutions they happen to be members of. And although I am not in a social club, I know social club member and pledges who I have a great deal of respect for. So don't stereotype. Do what Jesus would do; I doubt he would say "Leave the demon called social club because he who belongs to a social club can never follow me, nor can his sins be forgiven. Yea, I say unto ye, it shall be easier on the day of judgement for the cities of Sodom and Gommorrah than for members of Social clubs." Somehow, I don't think Jesus would say that. He would accept them for who they were, unless I have him completely misjudged.

Rock on to Vraeden. I Like the sex-advertising scheme. Funny stuff. Doubt you could get by with it and stay enrolled in school here, though. Of course, once you graduate, the world is your oyster.

Yours truly,
Ebenezar Caesar (remember that hymn that says, "now I raise my ebenezer", or something to that effect? So raise you Ebenezer, everybody, and join me in toasting the Underground. Here's to you, LU.)



Dear JSO,
        By the grammatical and obvious spelling mistakes in your reply (or should I say, "replay") to Catherine you must have been intoxicated. Therefore, I must agree with Catherine on this one buddy. How an individual could have made it into Lipscomb with that horrible paper writing ability is appalling.

The fact that you are in a social club only helps prove the stereotype of all social club members.  You stated in your letter to Catherine, "In closing please find some thing better on this campus to mone about."  Last time I checked Webster's "some thing" is actually one connected word. Well now I will moan (or should I mone). Damn you and your blatant ignorance (I guess I should say dam. You did.). I believe just like you stated (i.e. we are all satan's span). Just out of curiosity how big is Satan's span. I have in the past heard of Satan's spawn (that would be his offspring....You). You are a prime example of the statement ignorance is bliss. You and all of your beer drinking weed smoking, and sex loving heathens seem to be existing with no purpose in life but to justify the unChrist-like actions of Social Clubs. I am in no way saying that this reply is perfect. I am sure there are a few English majors out there that could rip this apart piece-by-piece. I was only trying to state the obvious.

Until Social Clubs learn how to use spell check,
I am.

p.s. I will really, really be looking forward to another grammatically nasty reply (or replay as you would say it) to shred.



To "Bubba"
To the question, how many actually stay your friend after you graduate?  Pretty much all of them.  I am still keep in touch with most of brothers from my club. It is not about all about parties and being mean to pledges as alot of people think, you learn about the clubs history and who has been a part of it and what they have done.  You respect the club and that is why people in clubs take offense to what people who aren't in clubs say about them.  You see what goes on in front of your eyes and what the Babbler wants to print.  The fact is the social clubs have problems but they do good things also.  Social clubs help some people enjoy their time at Lipscomb by letting them find a group of people with whom they can associate with.  You probably have a group you hang out with and if your group does everything perfect please let me know.  So what if people sit on the steps and talk, where do you want them to go. If you and your friends want to sit there, then do it.  Since it seems you don't know everything about social clubs and are relying on what you see and hear don't be so quick to put your judgment on  what you think they are about.  Your comments are nothing new. People have been complaining for years, but isn't it easy to target a group of people and to say all the bad things they represent.  If you don't like the social clubs then don't deal with them. Plenty of students that aren't in social clubs make through Lipscomb and still enjoy it.  Bubba, until you find you own life don't tell others about their own. Not everyone at Lipscomb is about living in Christ and that includes social club members, but they know who He is and what he is all about. The main point that I want to get across goes to everyone on the LU and everyone at Lipscomb:  There are problems everywhere.  Toughen up. The world is a cruel and mean place and everyone's whining and complaining will continue their entire life.  There are so many important things in life then what people complain about on the LU. Find more important issues than social clubs, they are digging their own holes. If you goal is help social clubs, great. Just don't criticize them because we can all be criticized.

Until you get into the real world and look back at what you complained about, I hope you see how silly you have been.
By the way, if Lipscomb is so terrible, transfer.

A Recent Graduate


and now, a word from the SGA regarding an upcoming amendment referendum

The amendment stipulates several things: add 1 senator per class, add 2 senators at-large, incorporate non-voting committee members as standard procedure, and allow each campus organization to have a liaison to the SGA that would be non-voting and elected from their own body. (For example, each individual social club is not allowed a member, but the ICC or the Multicultural Association as a unit may elect a representative.)

The reasons for such additions are as follows: senators and officers have large amounts of work. In addition, after the restructuring committee conducted a poll in November 1999, 60% of the students polled (891) believed adding senatorial positions would increase their representation on the SGA. Also, this year, for the first time, SGA has incorporated non-voting committee members, who have been excellent help. Implementation of non-voting committee members allows any student interested in involvement a venue for participation. The liaisons from each of the campus organizations will allow any organization a direct line of communication and input to the SGA.

The amendment unanimously passed the SGA. The president and the deans have signed the amendment. It now goes to a student referendum on THURSDAY, MARCH 30. Mark your calendar! Please come vote so that SGA is sure to do the WILL OF THE STUDENT BODY. A copy of the amendment is posted on the SGA calendar of the student center. If there are any questions regarding the amendment, or anything for that matter, please email SGAOFFICERS or call ext. 5941. Thank you.


Rachel Lavender

SGA President 


This amendment is going to be a great benefit to the campus. One thing I've noticed my first year on SGA is that we could use a little more help. This year nonvoting committee members, I've been told, have played a much larger role than they ever have, in regards to mere numbers and the help they've provided. Many times these individuals have done as much work as some of the senators for the events. Sometimes they've even done more. At least two conclusions can be drawn from this:

1. The present senators aren't completely fulfilling their duties and the nonvoting members have to fill in.......or.....

2. The senate is understaffed and a few more positions would be helpful.

I choose to believe the latter conclusion, as I hope you do also. Yes, #1 could have been observed at times this year, but the reason is not always laziness. For the budget we get and the number of people we have, this campus sees a lot of action. Members of the SGA are very busy, not only with SGA-related stuff. We've got the same classes, tests, responsibilities, and college-related things that you have deal with also.

Think about this: Right now, 22 senators and 4 officers are serving a student body of about 2,600. And with student body is growing every year, we definitely need to have more spots for people to serve and lead. Don't let the SGA turn into a small elite group it has been known as before. We need as much representation as possible and this is about the best way, under our system, to insure that. So, really, 6 more spots may not even seem like enough. Please help support this; get out and vote yes to pass this amendment in the referendum on March 30. Thank you for your time.

Adam Copeland
Sophomore senator


The SGA referendum scheduled for March 31 needs our attention. Basically, it calls for the addittion of one senator from each class and two at-large. The SGA needs more senators for better representation but more importantly for more people to share the workload. Look at some of the things we have done this year: Spiritual Life retreat x2, Gateway Getaway, Revival, Lonestar, Caedmon's Call, Fall fling, Valentine's day candy, etc. etc.

We want to do more, but so many times there is too much work on the shoulders of too few people. Ask Mark Jent, Josh Patrick, Andrew Buffington, Pat Ford, Rachel Lavender, Brandy Kilgore, and Lori Longhurst how many hours they put in to their respective projects. These people have worked hard for all the students, this amendment will help lighten the load. A survey of other private schools of our size shows that we have one of the smaller SGAs in the country. We also thought about adding senators from each college of study, but the logistics were a nightmare. (changing majors, complicated ballots) Instead we want to institute a system of liasons. Simply put, organizations can elect from within their own body one liason to aid in communication with the SGA. They can be as active or inactive with the SGA as the particular group they represent needs them to be. All in all this bill does not have many drawbacks. We just need more people with us working for the students. If you have any questions feel free to email me at

I encourage everyone to make it out to vote for this referendum.
Kevin McCormac


'Sleepovers' Becoming Pampered Teen Experience; Experts Disagree On Causes, Significance

Amagosa, CA-- Susanne Byers noticed two months ago that her 13-year-old son John didn't get many takers on his invitations to friends to spend the night at the Byers' home. He was a occasional guest at the homes of his seventh grade classmates at Amagosa Middle School, but rarely were reciprocal invitations accepted. When she asked her son for a reason why his friends didn't seem to want to sleep over at his home, the answer shocked her.

"Our home had been ranked a 'one-star sleepover' by his classmates," recalls Susanne Byers. "The kids had actually compiled reviews of each household, ranging from critiques of the meals, snacks, and desserts served, to the entertainment offered, to extra amenities such as swimming pools, game tables, and access to pay-per-view movies. Why stay at a one-star sleepover house when you can have burgers, milkshakes, video games, and your choice of dessert at a four-star sleepover? Our household was dead last in the ranking of the whole seventh grade, because I don't serve my family fast food and we don't own a video game player." The Byers' experience is not unique and reflects a growing trend in teenage social activities. "'Overnights' or 'sleepovers' have become critically important to a teen's self-esteem and social standing" says Amilie Tagooli, a consultant with the Parent & Young Adult Interactions Council. "It's simply an extension of the expectation that began in the '80s with the birthday restaurants, theme palaces, and catered museum parties. If you love your pre-teens, you'll take them to Discovery Zone or Water World for their birthdays--home parties are passe." According to Tagooli, "your teen's social standing depends on more than how your teen relates to his or her peers. Failure to provide a good sleepover 'experience' can lead to loss of popularity among peers, leaving the teen to be perceived as a less desirable friend. Parents who fail to provide the minimum 'standards' for a good sleepover are usually, in our experience, operating from some obsessive needs to control their child's creative tendencies. Fortunately, there are consultants who can advise parents on sleepover issues, with the ultimate goal of catering to your sleepover guest's every whim."

"I feel like I'm running a hotel here," objects Candice Romney, mother of two teens attending Lamacita High School in Peneville, CA. "Anymore, I dread having my teens' friends come for a sleepover. It's as if they consider my home to be the downtown Hilton, complete with maid and concierge service. They often leave courtesy and neatness at the door. When I ask them to help by drying the dishes or setting the table, they tell me 'I'm a guest, I don't have to do that.' I was floored the day one young guest walked up to me and *told me* what he wanted for supper, and what time he wanted it served. I would have phoned the young man's parents right then and there to have them fetch him home, but my teens begged me to overlook the incident, saying that the young man's opinion could make or break them in their social circle at school."

Dr. Paul Soren of the Baltimore Institute of Pediatric Sciences in Baltimore, MD attributes the shift of seeing sleepovers as simple 'kid swaps' to that of full-blown pseudo-vacation experiences to the recent popular perception of the parent as the "teen's friend rather than as the adult who provides structure and guidance. Many eager-to-please parents are trying so hard to be their child's 'friend' that they let the child walk all over them. It reflects an abdication of parental responsibilities that has had some downstream effects--obnoxious sleepover guests being one of them." For the time being, Susanne Byers is standing firm in her belief that the best thing for her teen is consistent and loving parenting. "It's unfortunate that his friends place a higher value on video game equipment and greasy junk food than spending time with my teen. But I won't try to win the approval of the sleepover crowd by putting aside our own family rules and standards. I want my son to learn that true friendship can't be bought, not with money or presents or laissez-faire sleepovers."

Reported by the Daily Apocrypha News Staff. All rights reserved. © 1999

I've been reading the LU off and on since the Professor Smith debates began, but have never felt compelled to write back. I've read many things that make me wonder whether it is really worth my time. In fact, for a while I stopped reading the LU completely . . . I was tired of all the ignorant responses and thoughtless replies that accomplished next to nothing. However, there are some worthwhile things going on here and I realize that a few aggravating instances should not be enough to discourage me from the original ideals of this forum and cause me to abandon it entirely. If you think about it, this idea could be applied to our school as well . . .there's no need to reject the whole on account of a few inconsistencies. . .but we'll save that for another time. So, in the end, I have decided to forfeit my LU virginity and begin responding whenever I feel the need. Consider this an answer to Ryan's call to all the "LUers who have never replied before". Here I am.

I would like to say a little about the "Social Club" issue that was running rampant in the last issue. Why are we kidding ourselves? Of course there are bad things going on. We all know it . . . the administration knows it . . .the students know it . . .it's no secret!! These are not "Social Clubs." What we have here are fraternities and sororities disguised in the mask of Christianity. This bothers me. The fact that these clubs exist doesn't bother me so much as the pretense does. Can't we drop the act!? Oh wait . . .we're a Christian University . . . I tend to forget. Our job is to appear perfect on the outside, while on the inside we are no better, and most of the time, worse than the people we are pretending for. After all, that's what Christianity is all about. Maybe I'd feel differently if I wasn't so hopelessly introverted. I might feel a need for the companionship our "clubs" provide. However, I'd like to think if this were the case I could accomplish my goals through other means. I'm not saying ban "Social Clubs." In fact, I think that would be a huge mistake. I am saying don't pretend to be what you're not. If we truly are a Christian school then it should be evident through our actions, not clever names and costumes.

In response to Toadman . . .good thoughts. I wouldn't take it to the extreme that you did, but what you said made me think . . . I agree with you to some extent.

What have I done!!?? The last thing the LU needed was another sarcastic and long-winded writer . . .but I couldn't resist.

I'm gone, The Don


JSO of Delta Tau,

What were you thinking? Were you thinking that we would read your reply and understand your position? Did you think that you were clarifying something? Let me suggest a proofreader for you from now until, well, for the rest of your life. Have you even taken Freshman Comp.?

Maybe this is an indictment on our English Department. English professors, how did you let JSO pass? He couldn’t put a fragment together, let alone a complete thought.

Some people aren’t as good at others at putting their thoughts into words, or spelling or anything like that. But those people shouldn’t submit a written reply to a publication of any sort.

A writer once said (I used to know who said it, but after reading JSO's reply, I can't think straight, so please forgive the paraphrase, too) "It's better for a man to be thought ignorant, than to speak and remove all doubt."  Do your fellow social clubbers, many of whom I like a lot, a favor and don't speak for them.




Hey JSO,

Maybe you should spend more time learning how to spell, instead of dressing your pledges. There is also this nifty thing called spell check; hmmmm... yea you might want to think about that. Oh yea, and if you think you need to use four letter words to make yourself seem mature, at least use a four letter word. Last time I checked a dam held water back, but what do I know. I am not against social clubs, in fact my roommate is in one. I just get tired of reading the ranting of ignorant people. Which leads to my second thought. Kudos to Joe D. for speaking out for Sanderson, he is a great coach and has earned my respect. He does not take the fans for granted, but instead thanks us for supporting the team. Finally, kudos to the fans on the other side of the court for finally standing and cheering on our Transouth champion Bisons.

Keith O'Neal

(Since you mentioned it, I'll elaborate:  Thanks, Bison basketball team, for a great season.) rg



We're entering the stretch run.  Reply often, sign the guestbook when you're on the website, and go to class.

A big "BOO, YOU STINK AWARD" to the clubs that put pledging activities before McQuiddy's final game and kept their pledges from going to see the Bisons win the conference title. Shame on you. The clubs that went to the game and brought their pledges (Delta Sig, Delta Tau, etc.), way to go. To the clubs that didn't (Phi Sig, Pi Delta, etc.), some things are more important than a night of pledging.  What better way to be social than to show up at the biggest on-campus athletic event of the year?

If you've got some good pictures from spring break, send them in and they might be included in an upcoming issue of "The Lipscomb Underground: Pictorial Edition."

Keep the Undie votes coming in, as well.

Until Lipscomb has an aviation program,
I am,

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LU#10 "This Land Was Your Land"
Volume VI, Number 150
March 21, 2000

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